Israel can, and likely will, throw out BiBi and his cronies who are as culpable as anyone. Palestinians will not throw out Hamas, especially with people like Zizek parroting the idea that Hamas is the only 'voice fighting for them.' The idea that Palestinians only option is choosing religious terrorism is something that Israel can, and will, disprove.
i think you're misreading zizek; he's saying realistically there are no better options in gaza right now for political representation. That's an observation that doesn't add up to support for the particular form of political representation (fundamentalist nationalist terrorist gang). Both of these observations a) no better options b) hamas is fundamentalist, nationalist, terrorist need to be taken into account for any kind of political solution out for gaza and israel. Otherwise, bombing the shit out of gaza is risking regional escalation every single day.
That doesn’t make sense at all. If Hamas surrenders then the bombings will stop. Different political representation on both sides would end the war immediately. Pretending that Palestinians don’t have the same political autonomy as Israelis is either infantilizing or a recognition that Hamas is a terrorist organization that would never relinquish control. If it’s the later then Palestinians should help in their destruction rather than support them.
they absolutely do not have the same level of political autonomy as israel. israel is a modern democracy. gaza is a territory propped up by un aid and a widespread gang of young angry men -- do you think you have the same political autonomy as an agricultural worker in guatemala? if the answer is yes, i would ask what exactly you think constitutes autonomy
Okay, then Hamas must be removed before any two state solution can be reached that gives autonomy to Palestinians. That’s the other side of that coin. Continued support for Hamas continues the conflict. Local support only decreases Palestinian ability to have self determination.
They HAD states; they were kicked out for precisely the kind of behavior they have conducted in Israel for the better part of 6 decades! The majority of the so called "Palestinians" are Jordanians or Egyptians. The "2 state solution" is suicide or homicide for Israel, and they all know that! Those people need to integrate in Israel or go back to their home states.
yeah i mean i think the only serious supporters of hamas in the west are confused undergraduates; from my personal reading about mafias and gangs, i think local support for hamas could be done more effectively through propaganda and economic self determination, and limited use of military might (exceeded at this point)
On paper, so to speak, the Muslim voting bloc in the UN, and, currently, the world court, support them against Israel, but paper is as far as that support goes.
That’s right, both sides authoritarians need to go. Removal of settlements have been offered in multiple peace processes and likely will be again. But they’ll never get to the table with terrorists in charge. If Palestinians are serious about their grievances they cannot continually resort to terrorism.
The funny thing about this is that BiBi was empowered because of Palestinian suicide bombers of the 2010s pushing out reasonable leftist voices in favor of hardline stances. Now we see the result of decades of terrorism as ‘the only action.’ For every action there’s a reaction, as you say, but for some reason you only see it one way.
Both have self determination, and the apologists for Hamas like other comments in this thread will only ensure more dead Palestinian bodies
Thank you for your detailed and informed analysis of the situation
I, as a mental health professional, believe that this war will last for generations to come, regardless of any peace agreements. I say this because the young people and children on both sides who are being exposed to this war will, for the most part, develop psychological trauma, which will later turn into fear, anger and hatred, which as we know are the necessary ingredients for the development of dichotomous thinking, based on All or Nothing, which divides the world into good and bad, right and wrong, friend or foe. There is thus no middle ground, which is necessary for the thoughtfulness and cognitive flexibility that allows people to be empathetic and coexist in peace.
Peace Agreement in this area of the world is a true Oxymoron. The children of both sides will suffer from this war until their last breath whether that be Eight years old or Eighty years old.
When Israel speaks of "genocide" these days, they are referring to the members of Hamas; when Hamas uses the term, THEY mean ALL Jews,not just those in Israel! Do you see no moral or practical difference there?
Plus, I’ve seen plenty israeli ministers and journalists, ie not terrorists, who have called for total destruction of all of Gaza, to empty it, call for genocide etc. Which in my view is even worse because they’re supposed to be representatives of a civilised democracy, yet they talk like despicable terrorist group hamas. I’ve just been in grief since oct 7, for everyone-jews and palestinians, who have been killed.
Sure they're calling to kill all Gazans, even, and not just Hamas? There are, of course, leftists in Israel too, and not a few of those may very well BE Muslims themselves, including ministers! Did you not know those who became Israeli citizens also hold positions of public trust? Surprise! Some are even IN IDF and IAF, fighting their own genocidal fellows for THEIR homes and families in Israel too. Did you know that? Read a splendid testimony from a young lady in IDF who declared, up front, she is Muslim Arab, and an Israeli citizen, fighting to protect her home and family, just a few days ago.
Yes, war is very ugly business, and NEVER, to be entered into lightly. I knew that even before I joined the US Navy myself in the '60s. My parents, my neighbors, and most of my teachers were veterans of WW II, and/ or Korea. Others were immigrants (legal) who slid out in the chaos between retreating Nazis and advancing Soviets. I saw photos my Mom took of her patients, with their permission of course, as they were recovering at her MOB (Navy for MASH), including survivors of the Bataan death marches and Japanese POW camps, before most non-military Americans were really aware of what happened there. As a student nurse, in the midst of the Cold War, I was "treated" to raw military (both Japanese and Allied) film of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, taken in the few days after each bombing. I also did time as a volunteer EMS 1st responder in the US , and saw some of that "warfare" up close. I see videos of Gaza and Israel alike, and hear what both left and right media are saying, including Israeli media on the ground in Israel.
So yes, I do know war is a very nasty business! I have also, both formally and independently, studied the ideologies underlying the mindsets of the Israelis, and the "Palestninans", including reading their holy texts; have you? Do you know the differences between them in that context? Are you aware that Jews were given a commandment " thou shalt not bear false wines (lie)" some 3 K yrs ago, while in Islam it is not only permissible, but encouraged to lie to further the cause (global caliphate and total dominance) of Islam, that there are even words for acceptable lying? Do you know Islam teaches that if they die killing non-Muslims, they are martyrs (a distortion of that word, to be sure), and "go straight to heaven", even if their deaths are by their own actions? Yet to Israelis, you can only enter heaven by grace through repentance of sin and faith in Yhwh God's Redemption, as it is for Christians.
Anger, hurt, and fear often provoke us to say things in a heat of the moment that are not what we really mean, but you really have to know, in this case, WHO the speakers actually are, and what their basic mindsets are, before you judge which is in the right or wrong.
Yes some of the right wing ministers are calling for the killing of all gazans. And why this focus on islam, if the enemy is hamas? It seems to me a lot of the discourse is rooted in islamophobia and racism and not just the destruction of this terror organisation (that I also reject, of course), that has in fact been propped up by Netanyahu himself. Also, this is not a religious war, as you seem to suggest. There are Palestinian christians as well, and muslims, jews and Christians lived in peace in the region before. You writing ”palestinians” makes me very uncomfortable. May I suggest you read or look up interviews on youtube with Edward Said, a (Christian) Palestinian- American professor at Columbia (unfortunately passed away due to cancer). A very intelligent and knowledgeable man who, with nuance, argues for the Palestians rights, as well as the rights of the jews.
I have also found Masha Gessens (jewish intellectual) essay in the New yorker about Gaza recently, very insightful (and scary). She also did an interview about it in the podcast ”The political scene” (by the New yorker).
Wishing for peace and love and security for everyone affected, both Palestinians and Israelis.
No, they are not right wing; they are very much left wing. Islam is the driving "force", the basis upon which Hamas, and all the other fundamentalist offshoots of the Muslim Brotherhood, operate.
There you go spouting left wing made up terminology for shutting down honest discussion, again. There is NO such thing as a phobia relating to an ideology that demands absolutely you believe their way, (based on multiple passages in the Quran) or be murdered, period. Like Christianity, it is not a race, it has member adherents from all subgroups of the human race, ergo not racism either. If something causes you discomfort, perhaps you should look inside yourself to figure out why; that really is not my problem. I read, a number of Arab, as well as Israeli and other scholars whose credentials are much more substantial, and without the bias,
I learned about Columbia, the New Yorker, et al, decades ago, when I was growing up out there. I left them all in my rearview for good over half a century ago.
You might want to consider this: if the " Palestinians" wanted peace, all they need do is put down their weapons, and STOP attacking and murdering Israelis; there would be peace in an heartbeat! The Israelis did not want this war; they didn't want the wars in '48, '67, or '73 either; Arab Muslims wanted them all, because ingrained in them, for centuries, by their Imams, is a visceral hatred for the Jews, and I doubt they even really know why! They learn it at their mothers' breasts; by school age, they have literally been being taught by their parents to murder Jews, physically taught, not just words.
Seriously, you need to educate yourself much better, especially about those who want you DEAD, just because you exist!
> “When Israel speaks of "genocide" these days, they are referring to the members of Hamas“
Israel makes no distinction between combatants and civilians (see: Dahiya doctrine). This is why over 1% of Gaza’s entire population has perished so far. It is textbook example of ethnic cleansing
Not true! IDF warns civilians to evacuate intended target areas, even to calling them on their private phones, to do that. It's HAMAS that doesn't care! Hamas wants a body count to blame on Israel, and bodies to hide behind, so THEY SHOOT civilians trying to leave, when their threats fail to stop them trying! THAT is why those Gazans have died! Even a Gazan MD, who also is Hamas, and was captured in the hospital allegedly "destroyed by IDF", but was actually only partly damaged by a " Palestinian" missile, admitted, under questioning, that was happening. (Just FYI he was showing no evidence of having been tortured, including of sleep deprivation, in that video. He was answering questions in a relaxed, conversational manner, neither cuffed, nor otherwise restrained, in the room, showing no fidgeting, or evasive movements, just a slightly dejected affect.)
I guess you've never seen refugees evacuating a military "front" before. They just have to get out of the way while the battles are on; then they can go back while the battles move on. They might have gone to Egypt, but they screwed that up for themselves decades ago. "Palestinians" are not a people group, but a collection of trouble makers kicked out of their lands by infuriated leaders long since, mostly Jordanians and Egyptians, and NOT welcome to return. they have no one but themselves to blame for their plight, including having ELECTED Hamas as their leaders! Don't you think it just a little odd not a single Arab Muslim nation has offered them asylum? Or even assistance?
You WISH! Clearly you do not know the meaning of the term! Neither do you know the truth about those you so foolishly choose to support. They are not "innocent victims" of anything but their own centuries ingrained hatred. They have nowhere to go, not because of IDF, but their own hate filled violent behaviors! Most of those so called "Palestinians" were kicked out of Egypt or Jordan decades ago, for the very same behaviors in those lands as we have seen in Israel since! So long as they cling to the hates of Muhammad , they will have neither welcome nor peace anywhere, by their own free will choices!
Sandra is not a psychopath.Sandra has a view point, an opposing view point from yours , that you do not like, or want to hear. Thats all, are all people that share her views psychopaths?
NOT in this instance, because OUR and other media are intentionally NOT tel!ing you which "Palestinian" deaths are caused by Israelis, and which are actually committed BY HAMAS just to "poison" people against Israel!
Are you aware IDF WARNS "Palestinian" civilians to leave intended target areas, even to calling them on their personal phones? Or that Hamas SHOOTS those who try to do so? Remember the hospital, early on, allegedly "destroyed" by IDF? Well, independent investigation showed: 1) it was not the hospital destroyed, but it's parking lot, with some damage to that side of the building, and 2) it was NOT Israeli ordinance but a "Palestinian" misfire from the far side of that same building aimed AT IDF!
SO, let me get this straight: based on media and "Palestinian" lies , YOU wish to blame Israel for a genocide they are not committing, and allow the real genocidal groups to keep on slaughtering Jews? Do I have that right?
I refer to them thus, because there is no such people group; they're mostly Jordanians and Egyptians, with others from other surrounding Arab nations who 1 of their Egyptian born cast off leaders (Arafat), self dubbed "Palestinians" in the '60s, out of the clear blue. Never in history was there ever a "Palestinian" people group, and Palestine as a place was a region, so labeled by Rome, comprising several nations in the area for governing purposes. There was neither nation or people called Palestine. The Philistines, which some try to claim were their forebears, were more related to Greeks than Arabs, which those clearly are. Now, your ignorance of regional history, and people groups, is as plain as your ignorance of the Islamic mindset due to the ideology, and the Jewish mindset due to their very different ideology! I suppose you still believe the Earth is flat, and the sun revolves around it too... So you're willingness to "discuss", because I call them on that lie too, bothers me not 1 whit! You are a sad, deluded person, and I won't support your delusions, or theirs. Have a nice life while you may; the coming judgment will not be very pleasant.
750,000 people forced from their homes at gunpoint. Hundreds of villages burned to the ground. Children, medics, and journalists executed en-masse. Farms burned. Water stolen. Houses bulldozed. Countless people imprisoned without charge, killed, and injured.
This went on for decades before Hamas even existed.
I don't believe Israel killed 20K people; I believe Hamas killed their ow n, either directly, by shooting them for trying to leave target areas, or indirectly, by holding them hostage to targeted sites. IDF warns civilians to LEAVE target areas, even to calling on their private phones; Hamas forces them to stay, or be shot by Hamas! So in this case, the death toll and threatened deaths fall on the SAME set of heads. Now, if you believe that insanity you stuck in the fine print, I think you are having a psychiatric emergency and require immediate help!
IDF warns people to move to certain areas then bombs those areas.
Israel brutalises people on the West Bank, where there is no Hamas.
Benjamin Netanyahu funded Hamas, openly declaring it part of his 'strategy'.
Using civilians as human shields only works if your enemy is unwilling to kill civilians. Israel has proven time and again (and openly admitted) that it is very, VERY willing to accept civilian deaths on a grand scale - so hamas has no reason to keep human shield.
Civilians in any military encampment are a liability - they will need to take food and water from your troops, and their inexperience could give away your position... "human shields" would be a liability to hamas, not a benefit.
I find it incredible that someone with military experience could miss such a basic tactical concept - no wonder America keeps losing the wars it starts!
Not so much on a volcano, but in a geographical area that will be uninhabitable for humans for most of the summer in about fifty years time, because of climate change (currently on track for 3° warming by 2100). So there is a "no state" situation underway.
Israel would do well to preserve its moral capital and use it to move the entire state of Israel to a more habitable climate zone. Like Canada maybe, or one of the other nations that offered sanctuary for the the Jewish people and the state of Israel around 1946-48.
Dismantling the holy buildings and structures brick by brick and reconstructing the holy landmarks in a different location, would be controversial enough, but not as bed as wiping the Palestinian territories out.
But I suppose that might thwart the whole "end of the world" scenario that so many factions hunger so desperately for.
The fog of war and the political posturing and the stories of human suffering all just serve to muddle the perspective of the longer term issues.
That was to what the Jews returned, beginning in the late 19th century due to Czarist pogroms : virtually uninhabitable DESERT! But as Scripture foretold, they caused that desert to bloom! Now it's worldwide exporter of many foods!
“Back to Hamas, the question we should raise is not just what will happen after it loses the war, it is also what might happen if Hamas were to survive and continue to rule Gaza. What would be the reality there after the waning of the enthusiasm of liberation?”
At this moment we cannot worry about the day after, even if you were willing “to sell your own mother into slavery” to find out what happened (V for Vendetta) Slavoj.
Surely you agree the first priority must be the cessation of bombing and the indiscriminate murder of Palestinian civilians. Surely that takes precedence.
This is a genocide, particularly the Israeli state’s rhetoric, their appeals to a disingenuous pathos, which we see from Zionist commentators across the board is blatantly obvious. Such use of language must set off alarm bells, both a vibration in the fabric of discourse and a clear siren to the World. With Bibi’s analogous reference to a biblical genocide (Amalek) at the hands of the Israelites, and the creation of a distasteful and reprehensible narrative by the Israeli Right, portraying the Palestinians as less than human or “human animals”, a people devoid of morals, a people who care naught for their own children, a barbaric people, all in order to justify their own genocide of the Palestinians, we as the world are compelled to take note at this use of language.
This type of dehumanizing language isn’t something new of course however, as soon as the énoncé is disseminated across mainstream media, social media and independent commentators, we must take heed and ferment action because history teaches us that if the murders have not yet begun, they are imminent. At this stage don’t worry about tomorrow, we must act now!
Nazi’s referred to Jews as “rats”, and not that long ago (Bill Clinton’s tenure) the Interhamwe, fueled by and emboldened with dehumanizing language, carried out a barbaric genocide by the machete. Radio Télévision Libre des Mille Collines broadcast similar dehumanizing language used for Palestinians on the Kigali airwaves, calling the Tutsi minority “cockroaches” and “snakes, tilling the earth in preparation for the bloodbath of the Rwandan Genocide.
In the world today, post Holocaust, Sarajevo and Rwanda, we cannot claim ignorance or shrug our shoulders any longer, history contends the contrary. We are now all too aware of the role language and the creation of a reprehensible narrative can play in the formation and implementation of genocide.
So I say stop worrying about the morning after. Let tomorrow look after itself. Let’s turn off the sluice gates of blood first!!
As Nelson Mandela declared, the liberation of the people of South Africa will always be incomplete while Palestine is under occupation and yes, South Africa has dire social problems and extraordinarily high crime rates, however regardless of nostalgia, what happened in South Africa had to happen. Apartheid had to be dismantled. Even if one had a crystal ball that could see into the future, what was the alternative for the black majority? Stay under apartheid because of future safety concerns? Surely not! Yes the day after hasn’t been all wine and roses but instead, a banquet of freedom even if it means the freedom to struggle and suffer in the hope of a better tomorrow. Better this than bondage and subjugation at the hands of Verwoed and the architects of Apartheid. And if you are unsure, think about arguing this “morning or day after” perspective with a living Madiba, Tutu, Hani or Biko. I think you would not be remiss if they vehemently disagreed.
I actually think that Human Animals is a fair description of Hamas and its atrocities. The NYT report on the sexual violence makes that clear. This stems from a culture that supports such actions. It should be viewed as no different than Nazi Germany, where a description of Nazis as Human Animals would also be accurate. When a human being willingly sheds his morality and acts like an animal, killing and raping wantonly, such a description is warranted.
Also, since when is a country required to provide free electricity to its enemy?
the fucking wars. and its set the muslims off against each other again. what a shame that is, the reasoning that any other way of experiencing muslim ethics is false god, how could alla be false according to their own koran ? yeah its yaweh with diff dress habits, but also desert REAL... I think of Yaw allah as a desert cunt, NO DONT SAY, as a desert tyrant that living in hard reality imposes strict habits -- in a way that also same as african novel when things fall apart.... I support democracy because without it I cease to have free speech it appears to me anyway
Hey Žižek! I'm writing from Ethiopia. I reckon I might be one of the few Ethiopians who's keeps up with what you're doing. I've got a question for you: our country is grappling with ethnic conflict stemming from our ethnic-based federalism, a product of Leninist philosophy. I strongly feel that we could benefit immensely from the insights of an intellectual like you on our situation and a way out of our troubles. It's puzzling that there's no one delving into this for us. Why is that? Why focus all your efforts on the Western world when millions are suffering and perishing on the fringes too? A single pamphlet detailing our condition would mean the world. I'm speaking out like this because I see you as a friend. That's the impression you've given us. But i love you, even if you don't write on Ethiopia.
Don't you know about Ethiopia, we kicked your ass out of our counter when you came to colonize us. Don't you know about the battle of adwa? if you think you are greater because you have colonised blacks, so is it true that we are even greater than you. Because we defeated the colonisers.
> I am new to Substack, but already feel at home. I can publish what I want, when I want, and communicate directly with you, my readers.
Hi, I'm sure this message is in relation to this campaign, that unlike the one I believe you did sign, does not have the backing of Substack's institutional power: https://theracket.news/p/substackers-against-nazis
As much as I would love to hear your expressed and unmediated opinion on the matter, with this comment I just wanted to point out that publishing what you want and contacting your readers directly is already possible in myriad other platforms on the internet, such as WordPress, Blogger or the more modern Ghost.
Hamas is the only true revolutionary force in the world today, and Westerners have lost all their intellectual and moral integrity to be able to see it.
Common sense you say. What is more common sensical than doing everything you can to break out of a siege that lasted for 17 years and is still ongoing. ‘Common sense’ is the kind of seemingly innocuous phrase that betrays your complicity and lack of moral integrity in front of genocide and injustice. The West has lost its integrity defending a grave injustice that’s been going on for more than 75 years at any price, and it will be your undoing. For perspective, the siege of Troy lasted 10 years. Gaza is 17 +
Gaza had their chance from 2005 to 2007. They had the ability and the resourced to build a beautiful country. They screwed up because they wanted revenge over a civilization.
Read Gaza by Finkelstein or any of the scholarship by Illan Papé, Edward Said or Noam Chomsky before making comments that demonstrate how stupid you are
Ok Jason,so now we know your a communist. That makes your comment on stupid, self explanatory, please stop self projecting. Look you want to be a communist that's ok, visit Cuba, Russia, China, Venezuela, Nicaragua,North Korea,ask for asylum, sorry sorry not Russia, you wouldn't last a week on the front.
Which proffessor indoctrinated You, into the wonderful teachings of Lenin and Trotsky and co.
Hard to imagine how anyone is supposed to build a beautiful country under siege and with the rest of your land under occupation. The two state solution has been dead for over a decade now because Israel - by their own admission - have never intended for it to actually take place.
I can see from the rest of your comments that you're described gazans and or hamas as 'human animals'. If that's not nazi and genocidal I don't know what is. Good luck, and may you see the light some day.
Ok Mark, now we know just how ignorant you are. Rather subscribe to another Substack. Did you know Zizek is a Marxist or are you just even more clueless than your response suggests! And furthermore, why do you cry Marxist when I mention Finkelstein, Papé or Said? Once again it’s best you comment elsewhere because you are only digging yourself deeper into the shit! And on another point, I would bet you have never read Said or Chomsky critically, you probably don’t even have a University degree! Oh and finally, I don’t care if you label me a Marxist, even though I wouldn’t label myself as one, happy to wear the badge you have pinned on me you heartless, ignorant fool!
ok that was easier than I thought. It's because your worldview is unraveling. You can still do the right thing, don't do what normal average germans did to the jews in concentration camps. See the crime for what it is, don't look the other way. Your integrity is on the line.
Israel can, and likely will, throw out BiBi and his cronies who are as culpable as anyone. Palestinians will not throw out Hamas, especially with people like Zizek parroting the idea that Hamas is the only 'voice fighting for them.' The idea that Palestinians only option is choosing religious terrorism is something that Israel can, and will, disprove.
i think you're misreading zizek; he's saying realistically there are no better options in gaza right now for political representation. That's an observation that doesn't add up to support for the particular form of political representation (fundamentalist nationalist terrorist gang). Both of these observations a) no better options b) hamas is fundamentalist, nationalist, terrorist need to be taken into account for any kind of political solution out for gaza and israel. Otherwise, bombing the shit out of gaza is risking regional escalation every single day.
That doesn’t make sense at all. If Hamas surrenders then the bombings will stop. Different political representation on both sides would end the war immediately. Pretending that Palestinians don’t have the same political autonomy as Israelis is either infantilizing or a recognition that Hamas is a terrorist organization that would never relinquish control. If it’s the later then Palestinians should help in their destruction rather than support them.
they absolutely do not have the same level of political autonomy as israel. israel is a modern democracy. gaza is a territory propped up by un aid and a widespread gang of young angry men -- do you think you have the same political autonomy as an agricultural worker in guatemala? if the answer is yes, i would ask what exactly you think constitutes autonomy
Okay, then Hamas must be removed before any two state solution can be reached that gives autonomy to Palestinians. That’s the other side of that coin. Continued support for Hamas continues the conflict. Local support only decreases Palestinian ability to have self determination.
They HAD states; they were kicked out for precisely the kind of behavior they have conducted in Israel for the better part of 6 decades! The majority of the so called "Palestinians" are Jordanians or Egyptians. The "2 state solution" is suicide or homicide for Israel, and they all know that! Those people need to integrate in Israel or go back to their home states.
yeah i mean i think the only serious supporters of hamas in the west are confused undergraduates; from my personal reading about mafias and gangs, i think local support for hamas could be done more effectively through propaganda and economic self determination, and limited use of military might (exceeded at this point)
Pardonne mon français . . . Va te faire foutre toi et ton dieu juif . . .
https://cwspangle.substack.com/p/pardonne-mon-francais-va-te-faire
On paper, so to speak, the Muslim voting bloc in the UN, and, currently, the world court, support them against Israel, but paper is as far as that support goes.
That was by THEIR OWN choice, not Israel's.
Pardonne mon français . . . Va te faire foutre toi et ton dieu juif . . .
https://cwspangle.substack.com/p/pardonne-mon-francais-va-te-faire
I’m sure that was cathartic to write but doesn’t address what we were discussing
Pardonne mon français . . . Va te faire foutre toi et ton dieu juif . . .
https://cwspangle.substack.com/p/pardonne-mon-francais-va-te-faire
That’s right, both sides authoritarians need to go. Removal of settlements have been offered in multiple peace processes and likely will be again. But they’ll never get to the table with terrorists in charge. If Palestinians are serious about their grievances they cannot continually resort to terrorism.
The funny thing about this is that BiBi was empowered because of Palestinian suicide bombers of the 2010s pushing out reasonable leftist voices in favor of hardline stances. Now we see the result of decades of terrorism as ‘the only action.’ For every action there’s a reaction, as you say, but for some reason you only see it one way.
Both have self determination, and the apologists for Hamas like other comments in this thread will only ensure more dead Palestinian bodies
Thank you for your detailed and informed analysis of the situation
I, as a mental health professional, believe that this war will last for generations to come, regardless of any peace agreements. I say this because the young people and children on both sides who are being exposed to this war will, for the most part, develop psychological trauma, which will later turn into fear, anger and hatred, which as we know are the necessary ingredients for the development of dichotomous thinking, based on All or Nothing, which divides the world into good and bad, right and wrong, friend or foe. There is thus no middle ground, which is necessary for the thoughtfulness and cognitive flexibility that allows people to be empathetic and coexist in peace.
Rolando
Peace Agreement in this area of the world is a true Oxymoron. The children of both sides will suffer from this war until their last breath whether that be Eight years old or Eighty years old.
Sure, I agree with you
Pardonne mon français . . . Va te faire foutre toi et ton dieu juif . . .
https://cwspangle.substack.com/p/pardonne-mon-francais-va-te-faire
Pardonne mon français . . . Va te faire foutre toi et ton dieu juif . . .
https://cwspangle.substack.com/p/pardonne-mon-francais-va-te-faire
Pardonne mon français . . . Va te faire foutre toi et ton dieu juif . . .
https://cwspangle.substack.com/p/pardonne-mon-francais-va-te-faire
When Israel speaks of "genocide" these days, they are referring to the members of Hamas; when Hamas uses the term, THEY mean ALL Jews,not just those in Israel! Do you see no moral or practical difference there?
Plus, I’ve seen plenty israeli ministers and journalists, ie not terrorists, who have called for total destruction of all of Gaza, to empty it, call for genocide etc. Which in my view is even worse because they’re supposed to be representatives of a civilised democracy, yet they talk like despicable terrorist group hamas. I’ve just been in grief since oct 7, for everyone-jews and palestinians, who have been killed.
Sure they're calling to kill all Gazans, even, and not just Hamas? There are, of course, leftists in Israel too, and not a few of those may very well BE Muslims themselves, including ministers! Did you not know those who became Israeli citizens also hold positions of public trust? Surprise! Some are even IN IDF and IAF, fighting their own genocidal fellows for THEIR homes and families in Israel too. Did you know that? Read a splendid testimony from a young lady in IDF who declared, up front, she is Muslim Arab, and an Israeli citizen, fighting to protect her home and family, just a few days ago.
Yes, war is very ugly business, and NEVER, to be entered into lightly. I knew that even before I joined the US Navy myself in the '60s. My parents, my neighbors, and most of my teachers were veterans of WW II, and/ or Korea. Others were immigrants (legal) who slid out in the chaos between retreating Nazis and advancing Soviets. I saw photos my Mom took of her patients, with their permission of course, as they were recovering at her MOB (Navy for MASH), including survivors of the Bataan death marches and Japanese POW camps, before most non-military Americans were really aware of what happened there. As a student nurse, in the midst of the Cold War, I was "treated" to raw military (both Japanese and Allied) film of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, taken in the few days after each bombing. I also did time as a volunteer EMS 1st responder in the US , and saw some of that "warfare" up close. I see videos of Gaza and Israel alike, and hear what both left and right media are saying, including Israeli media on the ground in Israel.
So yes, I do know war is a very nasty business! I have also, both formally and independently, studied the ideologies underlying the mindsets of the Israelis, and the "Palestninans", including reading their holy texts; have you? Do you know the differences between them in that context? Are you aware that Jews were given a commandment " thou shalt not bear false wines (lie)" some 3 K yrs ago, while in Islam it is not only permissible, but encouraged to lie to further the cause (global caliphate and total dominance) of Islam, that there are even words for acceptable lying? Do you know Islam teaches that if they die killing non-Muslims, they are martyrs (a distortion of that word, to be sure), and "go straight to heaven", even if their deaths are by their own actions? Yet to Israelis, you can only enter heaven by grace through repentance of sin and faith in Yhwh God's Redemption, as it is for Christians.
Anger, hurt, and fear often provoke us to say things in a heat of the moment that are not what we really mean, but you really have to know, in this case, WHO the speakers actually are, and what their basic mindsets are, before you judge which is in the right or wrong.
Thank You
You're welcome.
Yes some of the right wing ministers are calling for the killing of all gazans. And why this focus on islam, if the enemy is hamas? It seems to me a lot of the discourse is rooted in islamophobia and racism and not just the destruction of this terror organisation (that I also reject, of course), that has in fact been propped up by Netanyahu himself. Also, this is not a religious war, as you seem to suggest. There are Palestinian christians as well, and muslims, jews and Christians lived in peace in the region before. You writing ”palestinians” makes me very uncomfortable. May I suggest you read or look up interviews on youtube with Edward Said, a (Christian) Palestinian- American professor at Columbia (unfortunately passed away due to cancer). A very intelligent and knowledgeable man who, with nuance, argues for the Palestians rights, as well as the rights of the jews.
I have also found Masha Gessens (jewish intellectual) essay in the New yorker about Gaza recently, very insightful (and scary). She also did an interview about it in the podcast ”The political scene” (by the New yorker).
Wishing for peace and love and security for everyone affected, both Palestinians and Israelis.
No, they are not right wing; they are very much left wing. Islam is the driving "force", the basis upon which Hamas, and all the other fundamentalist offshoots of the Muslim Brotherhood, operate.
There you go spouting left wing made up terminology for shutting down honest discussion, again. There is NO such thing as a phobia relating to an ideology that demands absolutely you believe their way, (based on multiple passages in the Quran) or be murdered, period. Like Christianity, it is not a race, it has member adherents from all subgroups of the human race, ergo not racism either. If something causes you discomfort, perhaps you should look inside yourself to figure out why; that really is not my problem. I read, a number of Arab, as well as Israeli and other scholars whose credentials are much more substantial, and without the bias,
I learned about Columbia, the New Yorker, et al, decades ago, when I was growing up out there. I left them all in my rearview for good over half a century ago.
You might want to consider this: if the " Palestinians" wanted peace, all they need do is put down their weapons, and STOP attacking and murdering Israelis; there would be peace in an heartbeat! The Israelis did not want this war; they didn't want the wars in '48, '67, or '73 either; Arab Muslims wanted them all, because ingrained in them, for centuries, by their Imams, is a visceral hatred for the Jews, and I doubt they even really know why! They learn it at their mothers' breasts; by school age, they have literally been being taught by their parents to murder Jews, physically taught, not just words.
Seriously, you need to educate yourself much better, especially about those who want you DEAD, just because you exist!
> “When Israel speaks of "genocide" these days, they are referring to the members of Hamas“
Israel makes no distinction between combatants and civilians (see: Dahiya doctrine). This is why over 1% of Gaza’s entire population has perished so far. It is textbook example of ethnic cleansing
Not true! IDF warns civilians to evacuate intended target areas, even to calling them on their private phones, to do that. It's HAMAS that doesn't care! Hamas wants a body count to blame on Israel, and bodies to hide behind, so THEY SHOOT civilians trying to leave, when their threats fail to stop them trying! THAT is why those Gazans have died! Even a Gazan MD, who also is Hamas, and was captured in the hospital allegedly "destroyed by IDF", but was actually only partly damaged by a " Palestinian" missile, admitted, under questioning, that was happening. (Just FYI he was showing no evidence of having been tortured, including of sleep deprivation, in that video. He was answering questions in a relaxed, conversational manner, neither cuffed, nor otherwise restrained, in the room, showing no fidgeting, or evasive movements, just a slightly dejected affect.)
There is no where to evacuate to, Gaza is the size of Philadelphia. It's just culling people like animals in a smaller and smaller pen. Disgraceful.
I guess you've never seen refugees evacuating a military "front" before. They just have to get out of the way while the battles are on; then they can go back while the battles move on. They might have gone to Egypt, but they screwed that up for themselves decades ago. "Palestinians" are not a people group, but a collection of trouble makers kicked out of their lands by infuriated leaders long since, mostly Jordanians and Egyptians, and NOT welcome to return. they have no one but themselves to blame for their plight, including having ELECTED Hamas as their leaders! Don't you think it just a little odd not a single Arab Muslim nation has offered them asylum? Or even assistance?
You are a psychopath.
You WISH! Clearly you do not know the meaning of the term! Neither do you know the truth about those you so foolishly choose to support. They are not "innocent victims" of anything but their own centuries ingrained hatred. They have nowhere to go, not because of IDF, but their own hate filled violent behaviors! Most of those so called "Palestinians" were kicked out of Egypt or Jordan decades ago, for the very same behaviors in those lands as we have seen in Israel since! So long as they cling to the hates of Muhammad , they will have neither welcome nor peace anywhere, by their own free will choices!
No Anton
Sandra is not a psychopath.Sandra has a view point, an opposing view point from yours , that you do not like, or want to hear. Thats all, are all people that share her views psychopaths?
Anton
Actually its about the size of Rhode Island.
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Action speaks louder than words. Who is comitting the genocide, rather than just talking about it, is what is most pressing.
NOT in this instance, because OUR and other media are intentionally NOT tel!ing you which "Palestinian" deaths are caused by Israelis, and which are actually committed BY HAMAS just to "poison" people against Israel!
Are you aware IDF WARNS "Palestinian" civilians to leave intended target areas, even to calling them on their personal phones? Or that Hamas SHOOTS those who try to do so? Remember the hospital, early on, allegedly "destroyed" by IDF? Well, independent investigation showed: 1) it was not the hospital destroyed, but it's parking lot, with some damage to that side of the building, and 2) it was NOT Israeli ordinance but a "Palestinian" misfire from the far side of that same building aimed AT IDF!
SO, let me get this straight: based on media and "Palestinian" lies , YOU wish to blame Israel for a genocide they are not committing, and allow the real genocidal groups to keep on slaughtering Jews? Do I have that right?
Listen, I will not discuss with someone who refers to palestinians as ”palestinians”.
I refer to them thus, because there is no such people group; they're mostly Jordanians and Egyptians, with others from other surrounding Arab nations who 1 of their Egyptian born cast off leaders (Arafat), self dubbed "Palestinians" in the '60s, out of the clear blue. Never in history was there ever a "Palestinian" people group, and Palestine as a place was a region, so labeled by Rome, comprising several nations in the area for governing purposes. There was neither nation or people called Palestine. The Philistines, which some try to claim were their forebears, were more related to Greeks than Arabs, which those clearly are. Now, your ignorance of regional history, and people groups, is as plain as your ignorance of the Islamic mindset due to the ideology, and the Jewish mindset due to their very different ideology! I suppose you still believe the Earth is flat, and the sun revolves around it too... So you're willingness to "discuss", because I call them on that lie too, bothers me not 1 whit! You are a sad, deluded person, and I won't support your delusions, or theirs. Have a nice life while you may; the coming judgment will not be very pleasant.
750,000 people forced from their homes at gunpoint. Hundreds of villages burned to the ground. Children, medics, and journalists executed en-masse. Farms burned. Water stolen. Houses bulldozed. Countless people imprisoned without charge, killed, and injured.
This went on for decades before Hamas even existed.
Do YOU not see the moral and practical difference between SAYING you will kill everyone and ACTUALLY killing 20,000 people?
btw - Netanyahu funded Hamas.
I don't believe Israel killed 20K people; I believe Hamas killed their ow n, either directly, by shooting them for trying to leave target areas, or indirectly, by holding them hostage to targeted sites. IDF warns civilians to LEAVE target areas, even to calling on their private phones; Hamas forces them to stay, or be shot by Hamas! So in this case, the death toll and threatened deaths fall on the SAME set of heads. Now, if you believe that insanity you stuck in the fine print, I think you are having a psychiatric emergency and require immediate help!
Facts don't care about what you "believe".
IDF warns people to move to certain areas then bombs those areas.
Israel brutalises people on the West Bank, where there is no Hamas.
Benjamin Netanyahu funded Hamas, openly declaring it part of his 'strategy'.
Using civilians as human shields only works if your enemy is unwilling to kill civilians. Israel has proven time and again (and openly admitted) that it is very, VERY willing to accept civilian deaths on a grand scale - so hamas has no reason to keep human shield.
Civilians in any military encampment are a liability - they will need to take food and water from your troops, and their inexperience could give away your position... "human shields" would be a liability to hamas, not a benefit.
I find it incredible that someone with military experience could miss such a basic tactical concept - no wonder America keeps losing the wars it starts!
Not so much on a volcano, but in a geographical area that will be uninhabitable for humans for most of the summer in about fifty years time, because of climate change (currently on track for 3° warming by 2100). So there is a "no state" situation underway.
Israel would do well to preserve its moral capital and use it to move the entire state of Israel to a more habitable climate zone. Like Canada maybe, or one of the other nations that offered sanctuary for the the Jewish people and the state of Israel around 1946-48.
Dismantling the holy buildings and structures brick by brick and reconstructing the holy landmarks in a different location, would be controversial enough, but not as bed as wiping the Palestinian territories out.
But I suppose that might thwart the whole "end of the world" scenario that so many factions hunger so desperately for.
The fog of war and the political posturing and the stories of human suffering all just serve to muddle the perspective of the longer term issues.
That was to what the Jews returned, beginning in the late 19th century due to Czarist pogroms : virtually uninhabitable DESERT! But as Scripture foretold, they caused that desert to bloom! Now it's worldwide exporter of many foods!
Pardonne mon français . . . Va te faire foutre toi et ton dieu juif . . .
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“Back to Hamas, the question we should raise is not just what will happen after it loses the war, it is also what might happen if Hamas were to survive and continue to rule Gaza. What would be the reality there after the waning of the enthusiasm of liberation?”
At this moment we cannot worry about the day after, even if you were willing “to sell your own mother into slavery” to find out what happened (V for Vendetta) Slavoj.
Surely you agree the first priority must be the cessation of bombing and the indiscriminate murder of Palestinian civilians. Surely that takes precedence.
This is a genocide, particularly the Israeli state’s rhetoric, their appeals to a disingenuous pathos, which we see from Zionist commentators across the board is blatantly obvious. Such use of language must set off alarm bells, both a vibration in the fabric of discourse and a clear siren to the World. With Bibi’s analogous reference to a biblical genocide (Amalek) at the hands of the Israelites, and the creation of a distasteful and reprehensible narrative by the Israeli Right, portraying the Palestinians as less than human or “human animals”, a people devoid of morals, a people who care naught for their own children, a barbaric people, all in order to justify their own genocide of the Palestinians, we as the world are compelled to take note at this use of language.
This type of dehumanizing language isn’t something new of course however, as soon as the énoncé is disseminated across mainstream media, social media and independent commentators, we must take heed and ferment action because history teaches us that if the murders have not yet begun, they are imminent. At this stage don’t worry about tomorrow, we must act now!
Nazi’s referred to Jews as “rats”, and not that long ago (Bill Clinton’s tenure) the Interhamwe, fueled by and emboldened with dehumanizing language, carried out a barbaric genocide by the machete. Radio Télévision Libre des Mille Collines broadcast similar dehumanizing language used for Palestinians on the Kigali airwaves, calling the Tutsi minority “cockroaches” and “snakes, tilling the earth in preparation for the bloodbath of the Rwandan Genocide.
In the world today, post Holocaust, Sarajevo and Rwanda, we cannot claim ignorance or shrug our shoulders any longer, history contends the contrary. We are now all too aware of the role language and the creation of a reprehensible narrative can play in the formation and implementation of genocide.
So I say stop worrying about the morning after. Let tomorrow look after itself. Let’s turn off the sluice gates of blood first!!
As Nelson Mandela declared, the liberation of the people of South Africa will always be incomplete while Palestine is under occupation and yes, South Africa has dire social problems and extraordinarily high crime rates, however regardless of nostalgia, what happened in South Africa had to happen. Apartheid had to be dismantled. Even if one had a crystal ball that could see into the future, what was the alternative for the black majority? Stay under apartheid because of future safety concerns? Surely not! Yes the day after hasn’t been all wine and roses but instead, a banquet of freedom even if it means the freedom to struggle and suffer in the hope of a better tomorrow. Better this than bondage and subjugation at the hands of Verwoed and the architects of Apartheid. And if you are unsure, think about arguing this “morning or day after” perspective with a living Madiba, Tutu, Hani or Biko. I think you would not be remiss if they vehemently disagreed.
I actually think that Human Animals is a fair description of Hamas and its atrocities. The NYT report on the sexual violence makes that clear. This stems from a culture that supports such actions. It should be viewed as no different than Nazi Germany, where a description of Nazis as Human Animals would also be accurate. When a human being willingly sheds his morality and acts like an animal, killing and raping wantonly, such a description is warranted.
Also, since when is a country required to provide free electricity to its enemy?
Pardonne mon français . . . Va te faire foutre toi et ton dieu juif . . .
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the fucking wars. and its set the muslims off against each other again. what a shame that is, the reasoning that any other way of experiencing muslim ethics is false god, how could alla be false according to their own koran ? yeah its yaweh with diff dress habits, but also desert REAL... I think of Yaw allah as a desert cunt, NO DONT SAY, as a desert tyrant that living in hard reality imposes strict habits -- in a way that also same as african novel when things fall apart.... I support democracy because without it I cease to have free speech it appears to me anyway
Hello old friend! Good to see/hear/read you! God Bless and look forward to your unique deep analysis of of the human condition in real time!
Hey Žižek! I'm writing from Ethiopia. I reckon I might be one of the few Ethiopians who's keeps up with what you're doing. I've got a question for you: our country is grappling with ethnic conflict stemming from our ethnic-based federalism, a product of Leninist philosophy. I strongly feel that we could benefit immensely from the insights of an intellectual like you on our situation and a way out of our troubles. It's puzzling that there's no one delving into this for us. Why is that? Why focus all your efforts on the Western world when millions are suffering and perishing on the fringes too? A single pamphlet detailing our condition would mean the world. I'm speaking out like this because I see you as a friend. That's the impression you've given us. But i love you, even if you don't write on Ethiopia.
fuck off nigger
Don't you know about Ethiopia, we kicked your ass out of our counter when you came to colonize us. Don't you know about the battle of adwa? if you think you are greater because you have colonised blacks, so is it true that we are even greater than you. Because we defeated the colonisers.
Good shit.
Pardonne mon français . . . Va te faire foutre toi et ton dieu juif . . .
https://cwspangle.substack.com/p/pardonne-mon-francais-va-te-faire
> I am new to Substack, but already feel at home. I can publish what I want, when I want, and communicate directly with you, my readers.
Hi, I'm sure this message is in relation to this campaign, that unlike the one I believe you did sign, does not have the backing of Substack's institutional power: https://theracket.news/p/substackers-against-nazis
As much as I would love to hear your expressed and unmediated opinion on the matter, with this comment I just wanted to point out that publishing what you want and contacting your readers directly is already possible in myriad other platforms on the internet, such as WordPress, Blogger or the more modern Ghost.
Pardonne mon français . . . Va te faire foutre toi et ton dieu juif . . .
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Then they should be fighting Hamas
Hamas is the only true revolutionary force in the world today, and Westerners have lost all their intellectual and moral integrity to be able to see it.
We don't need true revolutionary forces.
What we don't need Extreme Right or Extreme Left positions
We need common sense positions , ( good luck with that)
Common sense you say. What is more common sensical than doing everything you can to break out of a siege that lasted for 17 years and is still ongoing. ‘Common sense’ is the kind of seemingly innocuous phrase that betrays your complicity and lack of moral integrity in front of genocide and injustice. The West has lost its integrity defending a grave injustice that’s been going on for more than 75 years at any price, and it will be your undoing. For perspective, the siege of Troy lasted 10 years. Gaza is 17 +
Gaza had their chance from 2005 to 2007. They had the ability and the resourced to build a beautiful country. They screwed up because they wanted revenge over a civilization.
Read Gaza by Finkelstein or any of the scholarship by Illan Papé, Edward Said or Noam Chomsky before making comments that demonstrate how stupid you are
Ok Jason,so now we know your a communist. That makes your comment on stupid, self explanatory, please stop self projecting. Look you want to be a communist that's ok, visit Cuba, Russia, China, Venezuela, Nicaragua,North Korea,ask for asylum, sorry sorry not Russia, you wouldn't last a week on the front.
Which proffessor indoctrinated You, into the wonderful teachings of Lenin and Trotsky and co.
Hard to imagine how anyone is supposed to build a beautiful country under siege and with the rest of your land under occupation. The two state solution has been dead for over a decade now because Israel - by their own admission - have never intended for it to actually take place.
I can see from the rest of your comments that you're described gazans and or hamas as 'human animals'. If that's not nazi and genocidal I don't know what is. Good luck, and may you see the light some day.
Ok Mark, now we know just how ignorant you are. Rather subscribe to another Substack. Did you know Zizek is a Marxist or are you just even more clueless than your response suggests! And furthermore, why do you cry Marxist when I mention Finkelstein, Papé or Said? Once again it’s best you comment elsewhere because you are only digging yourself deeper into the shit! And on another point, I would bet you have never read Said or Chomsky critically, you probably don’t even have a University degree! Oh and finally, I don’t care if you label me a Marxist, even though I wouldn’t label myself as one, happy to wear the badge you have pinned on me you heartless, ignorant fool!
ok that was easier than I thought. It's because your worldview is unraveling. You can still do the right thing, don't do what normal average germans did to the jews in concentration camps. See the crime for what it is, don't look the other way. Your integrity is on the line.
Sadly you are the one that needs to do they right thing. Write for Hamas to surrender. If you care about keeping people alive?
People fighting for their freedom should never surrender.
Pardonne mon français . . . Va te faire foutre toi et ton dieu juif . . .
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